fred franz was known to have some knowledge of the greek and hebrew languages, and made use of that knowledge when he worked on the new world translation of the holy scriptures.
but he died in 1992. is there anyone at bethel today who has a knowledge of these biblicl languages?.
it would be strange if a religious book publishing organization turned out to have no one at all who could read the bible in its original languages.. does anyone know what people are currently on the watchtower's bible translation committee, and if they know the languages?.
AlanF,
One such recent example of NWT error in translating from Hebrew is discussed in the post "Bible Translation" on 15 December 2005. (This mis-translation appears to be more than just doctrinal bias).
I hope that this is of interest to you.
Jack.
fred franz was known to have some knowledge of the greek and hebrew languages, and made use of that knowledge when he worked on the new world translation of the holy scriptures.
but he died in 1992. is there anyone at bethel today who has a knowledge of these biblicl languages?.
it would be strange if a religious book publishing organization turned out to have no one at all who could read the bible in its original languages.. does anyone know what people are currently on the watchtower's bible translation committee, and if they know the languages?.
AlanF,
OK - I got it back to front in that FW Franz declined to translate an English sentence into Hebrew - and I am happy to be corrected on those details.
All I can say from my own experience where I am presently working in Papua New Guinea:
- I have never experienced any more difficulty in translating English into the Tok Pisin language, than I have experienced doing the reverse.
The 1954 Douglas Walsh case did, though, show FW Franz to be a novice - even a raw novice - in his knowledge of the Hebrew language. That does not exactly instill any confidence in the accuracy of the New World Translation - he was the only committee member to have any knowledge of the Hebrew language at all!
(There is an expression where I come from, to the effect that "A little knowledge is dangerous." )
When I first started studying with / being indoctrinated by the JWs, I was told that FW Franz was "The World's Foremost Scholar in Hebrew and Greek." Not knowing any better, I actually believed that at the time (Yeah, I know - silly bugger!)
As to instances where the NWT has mis-translated certain Hebrew words, I can't recall offhand exactly, but will do some research and locate these.
Jack.
fred franz was known to have some knowledge of the greek and hebrew languages, and made use of that knowledge when he worked on the new world translation of the holy scriptures.
but he died in 1992. is there anyone at bethel today who has a knowledge of these biblicl languages?.
it would be strange if a religious book publishing organization turned out to have no one at all who could read the bible in its original languages.. does anyone know what people are currently on the watchtower's bible translation committee, and if they know the languages?.
AlanF,
Concerning Franz's abilities with the Hebrew language - did he not get caught out in a 1954 court case in Scotland, where he declined to translate a very basic sentence from Hebrew into English?
Whatever other reason could he have had for declining the challenge, other than his not being confident in translating even a simple sentence?
Further to that, there have been a number of posts on this board from Hebrew-speaking people, concerning the NWT rendering of certain Hebrew words. In this, the New World Translation has been way off the mark to the point of being laughable.
Jack.
leaving the organization, it is like packing for a journey you can choose what you take with you, and what you leave behind (other than people).
there are things i chose to take with me.
for example, i have used the sales training to my advantage over the years.
I actually derived considerable benefits from the Ministry School - however flawed that "school" may be. That training helped last year, for example, when I on one occassion I had to face-down mob of (extremely!) angry striking workers.
I would be quick to add, though, that it all proved to be a bloody expensive course in Public Speaking!
Aside from that, I took away:
- A trainload of resentment.
- A total disinterest in religion in any of its forms.
- A quest to rediscover the person that I was before the WTS Madness took hold.
Jack.
did anyone try to warn you about the wts before you saw the light?
how did you react to the info?
did you resent the person / people who told you?
Yes - unfortunately though, they did this in a hysterical and irrational manner:
ie. Raved and ranted on and on about "that lot" being full of s#*t ect. ect. ect. - without presenting any evidence to back their accusations up.
Consequently, it had the opposite effect on me to what they intended - I concluded that these were the ones who were really full of s#&t, and switched off.
Jack.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4666132.stm .
this caught my eyes and reminded me when as a ministerial servant that we had to go into the back room for instructions from the po (not very clever man), he tried his best to explain to us ms and elders about the wearing of beards in the congregation.
he must have gone on and on for 30 minutes about not having beards, but kept impressing that this was not a rule, but beards should not be worn, but its not a rule, just dont expect to have any privileges if you grow one on your face and wear it (sounds like you wear it like a tie he he) but we are not making it a rule, just dont wear a beard.
You also used to frequently hear about an incident in the Field Service, which involved a "brother" who did have a beard:
- Allegedly, someone cut this "brother" off - insisting that they "did not want to get involved in a student rebellion" .
The inference from this was that if you had a beard, people would automatically assume that you were a "rebellious student." (Never mind that if you take the trouble to look around a university campus, the students don't look too much different than anyone else the same age!)
Interestingly, 30 years ago, this rule was relaxed somewhat in some congregations in Australia for a time - myself and several others retained as Ministerial Servants, while growing a full beard.
The rationale at that point was that such matters were up to the individual's conscience.
Of course, that quickly went out the window when the Borg realised that they could not maintain their absolute control over everyone; if people were free to follow the dictates of their consciences.
Jack.
ive been thinking about the level of control the organization demands of its followers.
some of the things listed below are things that normal people take for granted.
some are the most basic of human desires.
The WTS has nearly always had a thing about "College Education" :
-The only exception was for a relatively short period of time following a Watchtower article in 1992.
- If anyone is in any doubt as to the WTS present stance on the matter, the recent post "Helpful in a Spiritual way" should reomove any such doubts. (This is a copy of a public talk that was recently given by a GB member - and it dwells at length on how any JW should not go for a "College Education.")
Adding to the list Coffee_Black has made previously, I can well recall a 1971 Watchtower article - I seem to remember the title being "Second Thoughts about a Higher Education."
(If I have the title not quite right, no doubt someone here will quickly correct me!)
Anyway, in this article, they made it quite clear that "Higher Education" was NOT an option for JWs.
This article directly impacted on me - as the following year (1972), I was to complete the final year of High School - then be sponsored through university to do a degree in Electrical Engineering.However, although my father never quite became a dub, the elders had some pull over him at that point. The result was that I never completed High School, let alone attended university.
(This is why today I am just a raggedy-arsed Electrician, working on an undisclosed remote site, somewhere well and truly the other side of the proverbial "Black Stump.")
Further to this, in a 1975 Watchtower, the WTS made it clear in so many words that "The Watchtower Society considers a Higher Education inappropriate." (This was listed in the WT Publications Index as "The Watchtower Society's view on education.")
About the same time that I got ensnared by the WTS madness, they were down on anyone getting married. There was a magazine article early in 1973 entitled "Making a Success of Singleness." This made it sound like that any single JW who was in any way serious about "the truth" would be staying that way until "after the big A".
From what I particularly remember from being an avid reader of their magazines for 28 years (Also what you got from the platform).
Jack.
the gb of the jws continue to make this grandiose claim that they were god appointed to be his sole channel through which he gives new light to the world and that they were also assigned to oversee his kingdom interests on earth.
this is of course an audacious but cheap lie that they want to use as a means to promote themselves and climb up, like babylon, on the backs of their followers.
what reasons or information can you offer that proves they are impostors against god and men?
When I first became ensnared by the WTS sham, I was told that "Jehovahs Witnesses teach the truth about the bible."
If that is the case, then the bible must repeatedly change its mind about things - because the WTS certainly does!
If other religions are wrong about something, that is "proof that they have not got the truth."
The WTS, though, would try to have us belive that "even though we are wrong, we are still right."
The whole business would be laughable; were it not for the fact that, in the process, a lot of people end up getting hurt.
Jack.
.
i recycle where i can - don't pollute intentionally - never litter - but that is about as far as i go.. how active in maintaining this planet for the future are you?.
jeff
'Green' is rather a dirty word to me.
I come from an area that the so-called Conservationists have managed shut down - because what they have brought about is not "Conservation", it is "Preservation".
What is the difference?
Simple - "Preservation" allows no place for people.
Reefton Jack.
i firmly believe that if you talk to someone long enough and know someone long enough, you will learn they are a hypocrite.
i don't think anyone can remain on one theme in their life forever and stick with it, as life is just to much about change to allow this and the human experience is about learning and changing.
when i see people quote others and yell the inevitable "hypocrite" comment in their direction.
I will offer an observation based on Bushman's Logic here:
- Given that we are all imperfect, the only person who is not a hypocrite is the one who is totally unprincipled!
Also, regarding the way in which the term "Hypocrite" is all too often bandied about as an insult:
- It has been my experience that the ones making the loudest accusations are amongst the worst offenders (Does that make them hypocrites amongst hypocrites?)
Jack.
